I just noticed an interesting problem with the Instrument Rating PTS. It
says:

Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test
[...] GPS equipment must [...] contain the current database.

The problem is that not all GPS units require that the database be current.
The CNX-80 AFM Supplement says:

2.3 DATABASE
The CNX80 Database Card P/N 138-0329-010 Rev. -- (or later FAA approved
version) must be installed.
a) IFR enroute and terminal navigation is prohibited unless the pilot
verifies the currency of the database or verifies each selected waypoint
for accuracy by reference to current approved data.
b) Instrument approaches using the CNX80 are prohibited unlessCNX80
approach data is verified by the pilot or crew to be current. Instrument
approaches must be accomplished in accordance with approved instrument
approach procedures that are loaded from the CNX80 database.

So, it's perfectly legal for me to fly with an expired database, as long as
I verify that the data is correct (presumably by comparison to a current
chart).

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message =
...
>I just noticed an interesting problem with the Instrument Rating PTS. =
It=20
> says:
>=20
> Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test
> [...] GPS equipment must [...] contain the current database.
>=20
> The problem is that not all GPS units require that the database be =
current. =20
> The CNX-80 AFM Supplement says:
>=20
> 2.3 DATABASE
> The CNX80 Database Card P/N 138-0329-010 Rev. -- (or later FAA =
approved=20
> version) must be installed.
> a) IFR enroute and terminal navigation is prohibited unless the pilot=20
> verifies the currency of the database or verifies each selected =
waypoint=20
> for accuracy by reference to current approved data.
> b) Instrument approaches using the CNX80 are prohibited unlessCNX80=20
> approach data is verified by the pilot or crew to be current. =
Instrument=20
> approaches must be accomplished in accordance with approved instrument =

> approach procedures that are loaded from the CNX80 database.
>=20
> So, it's perfectly legal for me to fly with an expired database, as =
long as=20
> I verify that the data is correct (presumably by comparison to a =
current=20
> chart).

Roy, I've wrestled with that same idea.
I've concluded they are two separate items. That's to say:
(a) I may navigate IFR with an expired CNX80 database if I verify its =
data, but
(b) I may not use an expired database on a flight test.
I can live with that dichotomy.

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:50:35 -0400, Roy Smith > wrote:
>The problem is that not all GPS units require that the database be current.
>The CNX-80 AFM Supplement says:
>
>2.3 DATABASE
>The CNX80 Database Card P/N 138-0329-010 Rev. -- (or later FAA approved
>version) must be installed.
>a) IFR enroute and terminal navigation is prohibited unless the pilot
>verifies the currency of the database or verifies each selected waypoint
>for accuracy by reference to current approved data.
>b) Instrument approaches using the CNX80 are prohibited unlessCNX80
>approach data is verified by the pilot or crew to be current. Instrument
>approaches must be accomplished in accordance with approved instrument
>approach procedures that are loaded from the CNX80 database.
>
>So, it's perfectly legal for me to fly with an expired database, as long as
>I verify that the data is correct (presumably by comparison to a current
>chart).


I'll play Satan's attorney for a moment, and argue that in this context,
the phrase "approach data" does not mean "data for a specific approach" but
instead means "ALL the data for ALL approaches," making manual verification
somewhat impratical ;-)

I could also argue that since the statement does not specify what is an
acceptable method of data verification, the only acceptable method is
verifying the revision date of the entire data set.

Sure, these arguments could be totally bogus, but do you really want to
take that chance?

"John R. Copeland" > wrote in
:

> I've concluded they are two separate items. That's to say:
> (a) I may navigate IFR with an expired CNX80 database if I verify its
> data, but (b) I may not use an expired database on a flight test.
> I can live with that dichotomy.

Any similarity between checkrides and the real world is merely an
illusion. For a checkride, do what you have to do to make the examiner
happy. In the real world, do what you have to do to remain safe and
legal. They aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, but they certainly
are not the same.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

The way I read that says that you can use an expired database for
enroute or terminal navigation (paragraph a), however you must have a
current database in order to use it for approaches (paragraph b).

That makes a lot of sense to me, and since the PTS now calls for a GPS
approach if the aircraft is equipped with one, looks like you should
have a current GPS.

If, however, you can get the DE to do the approach in VFR conditions,
then you're still VFR and he may allow you to use the expired
database.


On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:50:35 -0400, Roy Smith > wrote:

>I just noticed an interesting problem with the Instrument Rating PTS. It
>says:
>
>Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test
>[...] GPS equipment must [...] contain the current database.
>
>The problem is that not all GPS units require that the database be current.
>The CNX-80 AFM Supplement says:
>
>2.3 DATABASE
>The CNX80 Database Card P/N 138-0329-010 Rev. -- (or later FAA approved
>version) must be installed.
>a) IFR enroute and terminal navigation is prohibited unless the pilot
>verifies the currency of the database or verifies each selected waypoint
>for accuracy by reference to current approved data.
>b) Instrument approaches using the CNX80 are prohibited unlessCNX80
>approach data is verified by the pilot or crew to be current. Instrument
>approaches must be accomplished in accordance with approved instrument
>approach procedures that are loaded from the CNX80 database.
>
>So, it's perfectly legal for me to fly with an expired database, as long as
>I verify that the data is correct (presumably by comparison to a current
>chart).

On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:50:35 -0400, Roy Smith > wrote:

>I just noticed an interesting problem with the Instrument Rating PTS. It
>says:
>
>Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test
>[...] GPS equipment must [...] contain the current database.
>
>The problem is that not all GPS units require that the database be current.
>The CNX-80 AFM Supplement says:
>


But apparently the I-PTS requires that the database be current "in order to
take the Practical Test". Just because something is required for purposes
of taking the test, does not necessarily mean that it is required to be
legal in other circumstances.


Ron (EPM) (N5843Q, Mooney M20E) (CP, ASEL, ASES, IA)

Roy Smith > wrote:
>I just noticed an interesting problem with the Instrument Rating PTS. It
>says:
>
>Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test
>[...] GPS equipment must [...] contain the current database.

There are all sorts of little requirements in various PTS's that call for
requirements beyond what you'd need for the actual sort of operation
you're testing for. (Complex aircraft, full dual controls, that sort of
thing.) This of this as just another one. (Or you can just think of it
as the FAA being randomly weird. They do that.)

If I remember right though the PTS says for something to the effect
that if the aircraft is equipped with an IFR approved GPS that one of
the approaches needs to be a GPS approach. If you do not have the
current database then you can do another non-gps approach and it is a
dead issue.


On Thu, 07 Apr 2005 20:50:35 -0400, Roy Smith > wrote:

>I just noticed an interesting problem with the Instrument Rating PTS. It
>says:
>
>Aircraft and Equipment Required for the Practical Test
>[...] GPS equipment must [...] contain the current database.
>
>The problem is that not all GPS units require that the database be current.
>The CNX-80 AFM Supplement says:
>
>2.3 DATABASE
>The CNX80 Database Card P/N 138-0329-010 Rev. -- (or later FAA approved
>version) must be installed.
>a) IFR enroute and terminal navigation is prohibited unless the pilot
>verifies the currency of the database or verifies each selected waypoint
>for accuracy by reference to current approved data.
>b) Instrument approaches using the CNX80 are prohibited unlessCNX80
>approach data is verified by the pilot or crew to be current. Instrument
>approaches must be accomplished in accordance with approved instrument
>approach procedures that are loaded from the CNX80 database.
>
>So, it's perfectly legal for me to fly with an expired database, as long as
>I verify that the data is correct (presumably by comparison to a current
>chart).